Why would a buyer make a $100,000 offer on VisitBerlin.com?

Recent sales and offers continue to puzzle me. I don’t understand how a buyer will visit Sedo or any other domain platform, and then make an offer for 30+ times the value of a domain. There is no accurate tools to appraise a domain. However, Estibot and Valuate are reliable when a buyer or seller needs quick access to a price.

There are many posters on other blogs that reject domain age and stats as a criteria to set a domain’s value. Nevertheless, a newly registered domain is not going to find a home for $50,000. CamRoulette.com is a rare case ($152,000 after hand registration). A domain’s age is relevant to its value. Some will argue against a domain’s age as determining appraisal value, but they know it is an important factor to setting the price.

I know that end-users make huge offers. They have no idea how to find a domain’s worth. All I see is end-users paying top dollars to acquire domains that are nowhere near their value. World Wide Media recently turned down an offer on VisitBerlin.com for $100,000. Of course, I’m confident the domain is worth far more than Estibot and Valuate’s $3300 price point. However, I don’t think VisitBerlin.com is worth $100,000.

It’s frustrating to see a company trying to ask $200,000 for a domain, but then end-users turn down domains that are worth 6 figures. These end-users question a domain offered for $200. They turn around and pay several times that amount for a domain worth 10 times less than the purchase price.

End-users will reject domains because they don’t have enough knowledge to determine their market value. On the other hand, they will make insane offers on over priced domains. Posters may not agree with my assessment, but I know that it is well supported.

I don’t believe that any domain in the 2000′s is worth $100,000. CookingGames.com did manage to fetch $355,000. The Vancouver company that purchased the domain has experience with online games. I understand the reason they purchased the domain. Visit “region” are popular .com domains. Is VisitBerlin.com worth $100,000? $200,000? $300,000? The buyer that offered $100,00 must think the domain is worth $100,000. The owner is probably looking to get between $150,000-$225,000.

How do end-users know what prices to offer a domain owner? Without appraisal tools, there is no effective way to set a market price. Many mediocre domains are selling for high amounts. Such domains are not commonly searched keywords. They don’t deserve to be put into a premium class without any unique traffic, backlinks, and sites linking in. If the domain lacks performance stats, then it should at least have popular keywords.

My recommendation is to change all your settings to accept offers. If you set fixed prices, you’re selling yourself short. Read the DN Journal to determine what types of domains are selling. There has to be a way to make a sale above $1,000. I think asking $1000+ for a domain that appraises above that amount is fair.

You have to be direct when making sales. Don’t allow an end-user to place you in a passive position – to accept less money for your domain(s). If elitist domain investors are making a fortune selling their domains, then we also deserve to make those sales too. No disrespect to World Wide Media, but VisitBerlin.com is not worth $100,000. However, VisitNYC.com recently sold on Sedo for $10,000, which I believe is a domain worth 6 figures.

Good luck! Happy New Year! Thanks for reading.

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5 Comments on “Why would a buyer make a $100,000 offer on VisitBerlin.com?”


  1. I disagree with your assessment of VisitBerlin.com.

    Who would buy it?

    The tourist bureau of Berlin for one.

    There is also going to be a new gTLD application for .Berlin.

    We sold VisitStockholm.com through Sedo.com a month ago for $77,000 to the tourist bureau of Stockholm.

    Stockholm is a much smaller city that gets a lot less tourists than Berlin.

    Berlin is also with Brussels a business capital of Europe.

    We have also sold visitBarcelona.com for an amount in excess of $50K but I can’t disclose the actual amount.

    VisitFlorida.com sold for almost $200K many years ago.

    Visit…..com have become the official tourism sites for many cities and countries around the world.

    Yes the domain is worth more than $100K to the right end user.

    • Suisun Blog Says:

      Mike,

      VisitBerlin.com is worth $100k to the right end-user?
      Did they make you a $100,000 offer out of the gates? Or did you respond back with a much higher offer?

      I feel that you know what you want for the domain. End-users will turn down offers on specific generic domains, and then offer extremely high amounts on less valuable domains.

      You own many of the top domains in the industry. However, I don’t see the comparison between VisitBerlin.com and VisitFlorida.com. Florida is
      a major tourist destination. Florida doesn’t have state taxes, so they depend on their tourism to survive. The website generated high traffic site when it sold 6-7 years ago.

      Not every visit ” “.com site is going to produce a comparable sale. Your VisitBarcelona.com sale is far more appealing than your rejected $100,000 offer on VisitBerlin.com. I don’t believe it’s accurate to compare the size of a city to set the price. Would I compare San Jose to San Diego? No.

      Maybe Stockholm overpaid for VisitStockholm.com. It is quite possible that Stockholm is more appealing than Berlin. No disrespect to Berlin. I’m sure it’s a nice city. Belgium.com was once offered in a Sedo auction. No bids reached $100,000. The reserve was set between $250-$500K. Is VisitBerlin.com worth more than Belgium.com? Not a chance.

      I only have 5% of the experience you have, but I know enough to not
      over pay for a domain. I may never reach elite status, but I understand how to use domain tools to assess a domain.

      I invested the past year reading and analyzing the domain industry. In addition, I pay attention to market trends. If I had the funds to make large purchases, I would target more appealing destination domains worth $100,000.

      I congratulate you for acquiring TheDomain.com. You
      actually got a great deal. With traffic and links set aside, your TheDomain.com is worth far more than your current blog.

      You rejecting a $100k offer for VisitBerlin.com is something that puzzles me. The domain has no real traffic. You have 5 sites that link in to the domain. VisitBarcelona.com is a better site. They have beaches, Spain is exotic, there are cruises, and many prefer to visit that location more than Berlin.

      Florida, as a US state and popular tourist destination, is way more appealing than Berlin. VisitFlorida.com generates an average of 150K unique visitors per month. It is consistently scoring high traffic. The website has a strong Alexa ranking. Moreover, Orlando and Miami are known across the world.

      What about VisitNYC.com? The domain sold at Sedo for $10,100. The domain is up for sale again. New York City is hundred times more popular than Berlin. Can you get a $100k offer on that site?

      You seem to get major offers, and then turn them down because you can. You have major assets to hold out for a better offer. You’re in no rush to make a sale, especially if the offer doesn’t meet your expectations. Comparing one sale and a city to a past sale is not accurate.

      I disagree with you mentioning VisitBerlin.com in the same breath as VisitFlorida.com. No comparison. VisitFlorida.com is 4 years older than VisitBerlin.com. The Florida site has far more activity. If you developed and promoted the domain, then maybe I would understand the reason you rejected the $100,000 offer.

      What do you think your VisitBerlin.com worth? I only question the rejected offer. The site doesn’t have too much activity. The domain only produced a few unique visitors last month. Your Berlin.com may be worth between $250,000-$1,000,000 to the right end-user. Based on your past sales, you probably are looking for $5 million for that domain. I no problem accepting the high value of that domain.

      Furthermore, Sedo manages to score huge domains deals that are normally impossible without their brokerage services. On the flip side, their auction platform has also failed to produce sales on more appealing domains which should have sold for 6 figures. Your Most Wanted Domains is a respected domain aftermarket, as well.

      Your stuff.com is worthy of $300-500k. RestaurantSupply.com is another major site. What do you think the outlook is on spirituality.me? You rejected an offer for $10,000 on Kevin.me. I think spirituality is a universal word that is worth more than $870.

      I respect your elite status. I’m unlike others that follow the mass. I will challenge any sale, offer, news and whatever I think is questionable.

      Of course, most countries and cities are using Visit .com domains as their premiere travel sites. Experience ” ” .com sites are also developed into travel websites. Comparing one sale and a city population to another is not reliable. In my opinion, the VisitBerlin.com is not worth $100,000. I will disagree with you the entire year on that domain.

      I’m sure you’ll get what you want for the domain because you usually make high profile sales. More power to you if you sell VisitBerlin.com for more than $100k. I’ll be the first to congratulate you when you make the sale.

      Good luck on selling the domain. Thanks for the comment.

  2. Gazzip Says:

    “There is no accurate tools to appraise a domain.”

    TRUE, only opinions 🙂

    “However, Estibot and Valuate are reliable when a buyer or seller needs quick access to a price.”

    Reliable ? Not even the owner of valuate.com would put an asking price on his best domains based purely on a “Valuate/Estibot” appraisal – I checked a bunch of his a while back 😉

    There really is’nt any such thing as a 100% accurate appraisal for domain names as they are all unique so in that respect Valuate is’nt really doing anyone any favours by pretending its accurate.

    Automated algorithms can NEVER come up with an accurate value of a domain name because they can never figure out the value or power of a great brand name or generic to the right man with the right plan.
    Also most of the data they use to determine “value” has been taken from previously published sales from the likes of DnJournal, sedo etc

    The downside of that is that a huge amount of that data was/is based on BUYS – Not end-user Sales.

    When I say Buys I mean many of these domains were bought in the drops like Snapnames, Namejet etc.

    They were bought for RESALE.

    If only two people found a ten year old two word meaningful generic domain in a lucrative market or a very strong brandable domain whilst sifting through the thousands of crappy daily dropping names but only one of those two people in the auction could afford to bid up to $150 at that moment in time does that mean thats the REAL or accurate value of the domain – No way.

    Some of these names that go for a few hundred in the drops might make more than that in a week/month or year so is that domain only worth a few hundred – No way.

    Appraisals are just basically opinions, even if you asked 20 of the top domain experts including those at sedo what an accurate appraisal was for “domain x” to an end-user you’d still end up with a pretty wide range of prices.

    I guess the notion of “accurate domain valuations” could be discussed until the cows come home but it could never really be solved 100% – not even close..manual or automated.

    If you’re happy enough beleiving Valuate/Estibot is reliable then that’s your call but their valuation of visitberlin at just over 3k is bonkers.

    “I know that end-users make huge offers.”

    I wish it was that easy – even some really loaded ones won’t cough up a few hundred bucks never mind tens of thousands 😉

    ps) You might find this article an interesting read?
    dnjournal.com/articles/aftermarket/warner-valuation-factors.htm

    • Suisun Blog Says:

      Gazzip,

      I probably made a few references in the article, which I meant to suggest that one should trust their own instinct to purchase domains.

      I have many of those articles on both my sites. I let 400 domains drop due to trusting the domain valuation tools.

      I’m good enough to find domains without depending on the tools. VisitBerlin.com is not worth $230,000.

      That’s an end-used. The only buyer that would pay that amount is Betlin Travel Agency. I’ll stand firm that domain is not even comparable, or in the same arena as VisitFlorida.com.

      These visit domains are influencing owners to ask absurd prices for their domains. The stats are not as impressive, even on VisitBerlin.com.

      I realize the domain is worth more than $3,000. BlackFriday.com is worth 100-200 times more than $12,000. Aside from stats, you can determine a good name from a bad domain.

      I may not have an expert eye, but I believe I can spot a few good domains. In my opinion, VisitBerlin.de purchased the domain because their website traffic is suffering.

      There’s no obvious way to determine unique traffic, but there’s no evidence to compare the decline in traffic to the desperation in increasing the offer. If VisitStockholm.com didn’t sell at $77k, there is no way that VisitBerlin.com would have fetched $230,000.

      Let’s forget about comparing ViditFlorida.com to VisitBerlin.com That’s a far superior website, and much popular as a US state than a German city. No direspect to Germany. I’m sure it’s a great experience to travel there.

      Mike even said it himself that he based the value on his past sale and VisitFlorida.com. His company’s problem is they try to bring in domains such as MotorcycleHelmets.com into the same discussion as SportingGoods.com. No comparison.

      I wouldn’t attempt to compare my CustomResumeService.com to ResumeService.com, which sold for $28,000. I’m asking $1500 for the domain. I know not to ask too much.

      In my opinion, WWMI overprices their domains because they can. End-users overpay without doing barely enough research. Mike can afford to sit back and not make a sale.

      He owns Berlin.com. Will he ask $20-$200 million for that domain? I assure you Berlin.com is 100-1000 times better than VisitBerlin.com. Berlin is no London, New York City, or Paris.

      Push aside appraisal tools and sales, and that domain is worth mid 5 figures at most. The end-user overpaid again. There’s no alternative, so they have to pay WWMI(IMO) insane prices.

      Otherwise, they continue to struggle with traffic. They may have been popular before, but they have some traffic problems. There was an immediate need to secure the domain. I assure you, no person will pay that amount.

      I know all about the top domainers. I got rejected presenting a domain that was for the same price as the Berlin domain, and this domain is 10-100 times more valuable. This domainer wanted the domain, but didn’t want to pay end-user price. My experiences have changed since I published the article.

      I still don’t agree with the price and the value. You live in the UK. You value travel there more than me because I never visited Europe. VisitItaly.com, ViditUk.com, VisitGermany.com and other visit .com are worth the money, not VisitBerlin.com.

      You mentioned it’s the best deal of the century. I think it’s the most overpriced domain sold next to CamRoulette.com. VisitBerlin.com is not worth $100k, $150k, and even $230k. To the end-user the price is fair, to the rest of the domain work that domain is far overpriced.

      Mike said his formula is based on population and his Stockholm sale. He or his writers believe MotorcycleHelmets.com is similar to SportingGoods.com. That’s totally unrealiable. No wonder the buyer got pissed. If that domain was so valuable, then there would have been more resistance to win it at Las Vegas.

      In any case, I can write a book on why the domain is not worth $230K in this world economy. A domain such as that pointed to their domain will take many years to earn back the money. There’s a gamble in purchasing the domain. People ars tight with their money. It’s not an easy time. It will take more than a domain to spark travel.

      Thanks for your comment. Good discussion.

  3. Gazzip Says:

    “These visit domains are influencing owners to ask absurd prices for their domains. The stats are not as impressive, even on VisitBerlin.com. ”
    —————
    Stats ain’t everything, some times they mean nothing to the person thats buying, why did Overstock pay $350,000 for O.co ?

    If O.co did get any traffic beforehand you can guarentee it was’nt anyone looking for them 🙂

    To them it was for the Branding

    ————————–
    “Let’s forget about comparing ViditFlorida.com to VisitBerlin.com That’s a far superior website, and much popular as a US state than a German city. No direspect to Germany. I’m sure it’s a great experience to travel there.”
    ——————————

    You’re looking at it too much from the point of a domainer IMO – A person that wants to advertise Berlin will not give a monkeys about Florida being much better/bigger – who cares? it’s not important to them whatsover 🙂

    Comparables are used all the time, I think more to show that other people are also paying big bucks for “similar” domains. Most end-users don’t want to pay more than $4000 for a domain 😉 Most end-users have no idea the prices that thousands of domains have already sold for in the past….all you can do it point them at something similar, its up to them if they agree with the value, most times they don’t.

    ———-
    “His company’s problem is they try to bring in domains such as MotorcycleHelmets.com into the same discussion as SportingGoods.com. No comparison.”
    ———-

    While I would agree that SportingGoods.com offers far more potential to sell a far wider and more expensive range of products than Motorcyclehelmets I don’t think (from what I’v read) that his company has a problem, they make more in PPC than it costs to keep their domains and they sell tens of thousands of dollars worth of domains each year. He’s still buying loads of domains every single day and often spends thousands per name doing so.

    If thats a problem then it sounds like a problem I would love to have TBH 😉

    —————-
    “He owns Berlin.com. Will he ask $20-$200 million for that domain? I assure you Berlin.com is 100-1000 times better than VisitBerlin.com.”
    ———————

    Mike does’nt own Berlin.com – That is owned by another seperate company.

    Berlin.com will probably never sell to the official tourism board at the price they want which (at a guess) is 3 million up. The more it is the harder it will be to ever sell it.

    Just like the official tourism board for Scotland went with VisitScotland and laughed when I told them Scotland.c*m was coming up for auction at a couple of million reserve range….not interested

    Their marketing budget is many millions per year.

    From a domainers viewpoint berlin is far better than visitberlin for type-in traffic but that is only relevant to a point, the cost of the domain versus the income from PPC

    But from a marketing/end-user viewpoint (considering the price difference between the two) VisitBerlin is GREAT value for money as traffic can be grown by other forms of advertising or better search engine rankings.

    Even if they owned Berlin.com they would still have to spend decent money every year to market it in magazines, TV etc. No doubt about that at all.

    That’s the only way to ever stay in the limelight.

    ————-
    “I know all about the top domainers. I got rejected presenting a domain that was for the same price as the Berlin domain, and this domain is 10-100 times more valuable. This domainer wanted the domain, but didn’t want to pay end-user price.
    ————–

    What was the domain?

    Why would a top domainer pay end-user prices, he would have to become a developer to make any money as there’s no profit left to resell it 🙂

    We ALL think our domains are really valuable but until someone else is willing to actually BUY them for cold hard cash then it really does’nt mean jack shit unless those domains are earning good money in PPC

    I bet if I put all 300 of my domains up for sale today for $1 million in total no domainer would buy them.

    Don’t let the domain rejections bother you, there will be many more coming.

    Good luck 🙂 later


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